Recently been brought up could an Eldar Farseer target a unit in a vehicle with guide/fortune. Common sense, and the 5th edition rules say no.
Current edition when you look at it is a tad murkier. Under the rules for psykers, all powers, unless otherwise stated, need line of sight. "This means that a psyker embarked on a transport can only target himself, his vehicle or another unit embarked on the same vehicle as the psyker. Similiarly, a psyker outside a transport cannot target a unit embarked on a within one."
This has important implications. The only protection a unit has embarked on a transport is the fact they cannot be seen by anyone. There is no explicit protection provided by the transport rules.
Eldar powers don't need line of sight, as per their codex. This means Farseers can target units in vehicles. Although this doesn't work for fortune/guide as they both need the target to have a model within 6" of the psyker, which a unit in a transport will not have. A Farseer can however hide in a transport and provide buffs to units outside the vehicle. He can also doom an enemy unit inside a transport.
It has wider reaching implications. Grey Knight Purgation squads can shoot at things outside their line of sight, so they can in theory shoot at guys in transports. Also Hive Guard can do much the same, and since vehicle interiors do not implicity provide a cover save you might not even get a cover save from them.
Again common sense says this is all moot, but there it is. I expect this to be FAQ'd at some point. I haven't seen this brought up anywhere else, maybe I'm missing something, but it's how I see it.
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it explicitly states you can't target a unit on a transport. It deosn't matter whether you need line of sight or not, you can't target the power at them
ReplyDeleteregardless of anything else, it says you can't target units in transports
ReplyDeleteMight wanna come up with a reference, it says nothing of the sort. Only restriction on targeting anything is line of sight.
DeleteWe need a page number and paragraph reference because we can't find this.
DeleteIf thats directed at me.
DeleteLine of sight is page 8. not really relevant, but it's cornerstone of targetting. you have to be able to see the body of your target normally
Normal choosing a target is page 12, 'You must have line of sight to your target" This is the only rule protecting troops in transports.
Psychic targeting is page 67. 'Unless otherwise stated the psyker must have line of sight to it's target' it then goes onto to state the consequences of needing line of sight, you cannot target things in tranports for instance.
This is were it's important that Eldar powers don't need line of sight. They can therefore ignore the paragraph.
Page 79 covers trnasports. Specifically capacities, fearless, embarking, disembarking, overwatch fire, and the effects of damage results on the occupants. At no point does it cover whether you can or cannot be targeted. Mostly because it's covered by needing line of sight to your target. The only protection embarked troops have from enemy fire.
I did state it does fly in the face of common sense, but since when did common sense apply?
No, that was to Richard. Jon wants a specific refernece after all.
Deletepage 67 in the mini rulebook, top of the second column. It says that psykers can't target units in a transport when you're outside of one.
ReplyDeleteNowhere does it say that if you don't need line of sight, you can't target units in transports
it also says you have to nominate a target for your power, the embarked unit isn't on the board to nominate as a target
Read that again, like I say above, page 67 says psykers need line of sight, and then it goes on to say what this means. Not being able to target units in vehicles is a by effect of needing line of sight.
DeleteUnits in transports are coexisting with the vehicle, they are not off the table.
you can't target anything else at units in vehicles, so why would you be able to target a psychic power, even ones not needing line of sight at them.
DeleteI know it's a shooting attack, but Jaws of the World Wolf doesn't need LoS either, but it still can't get at units in transports
It only affects models it touches, and it can't touch the occupants as they are one with the vehicle. The unit is there, the models are not. A modest difference.
DeleteShadow in the warp affects pyskers in transports. You can't apply consistency to things when GW don't do consistency.
Until GW put the blanket 'no you can't' as it was in the 5th editon faq, theres not much way round it. They f'ed up.
Deletethey have f'd up. Rules as Intended suggests not, but as usual Rules as Written doesn't support it
Deletethere's also the precedent in the doom of malan'tia's rules/faq for abilities/psychic powers not affecting units in transports
ReplyDeleteThats because it doesn't target at all and needed the clarification. And was written for an edition of the game that did it in fact expressly forbid affecting units in transports. It's not a precedent if it isn't the same situation. Same with psychic scream, which is a pychic shooting attack anyway and therefore needs los.
DeleteIt should be you can't target units in vehicles, but it's not. This is all entireley because Eldar powers uniquely ignore line of sight. But because of it, it affects other things that ignore line of sight.
So the overall conclusion is?
DeleteCan Mr Eldrad target a unit in a vehicle?
It depends on the power.
DeleteIn short, Guide and fortune, no. They both require a model to be within 6"
Doom yes.
Eldritch storm and Mind War are a no.